mng Animation and other alternates

[Damon Caskey]

What it says on the tin.

Utunnels brought up the subject of .mng animation over here and I wanted to get thoughts.

DC

[DJGameFreakTheIguana]

I've never heard of this format before, and from what I've read, it's was related to PNG but also had something to do with animation. Was this some kinf od alternate GIF format or something? IF there's some good uses for it and it was usable in OpenBOR, I'd give it shot.

X)

[utunnels]

You are fast DC.
Well, I haven't tried that thing, but as far as I know, certain versions of MAME allow users to record MNG movie. And that is the only place I see mng being used.

There must have been other discussions on implementing movie features in openbor, so any conclusions so far?

Edit*
Actually when I was ripping Golden Axe sprites, I tried MNG movie recording, since MAME didn't have step frame feature like winkawaks.  But if we really want to implement MNG movie support, we'll need to find a good editor or converter. http://libpng.org/pub/mng/mngaped.html

Edit again*

It seems most links are broken (at least to me). So maybe it is harder to find a good and free MNG editor.

Edit again*

OK, I think I know one reason why movie support is limited so far. Maybe openbor has to support 8bit screen but most movie formats only support 16/24bit color?

[msmalik681]

i know png images on average are smaller then gif's would mng also compress better can it handle more then 256 colours and can audio be added to it ?

[MatMan]

Mng trully and honestly rocks. It took forever for a animation gif replacement to come out and it is mng. The visual difference is huge especially since it can do 16/32b color aswell and in most cases the compression is alot better. I remember that firefox was the first one to properly support it.

Its an interesting idea that mame could record in mng format. Didn't know that it could do that.

[Damon Caskey]

since MAME didn't have step frame feature like winkawaks.  

Just a quick FYI for you, MAME can do step frames, it just isn't documented. Pause, and then use Shift+Pause to step frame. Even though the screen is darkened, the default screenshot Key (F12) will take a clean shot.

DC

[msmalik681]

I'm sold I would love to see this added

[utunnels]

since MAME didn't have step frame feature like winkawaks. 

Just a quick FYI for you, MAME can do step frames, it just isn't documented. Pause, and then use Shift+Pause to step frame. Even though the screen is darkened, the default screenshot Key (F12) will take a clean shot.

DC

Hmm, I see. Or maybe I was just do that for convenience, since some combos can't be performed while the game is paused. 


Well, back to topic. About the problem I mentioned: if the screen is in 8bit mode, it is impossible to draw 16bit images over it. I know that can be easily done in SDL port, change the screen mode while playing gif and then change it back. But as for consoles, I have no idea.

[bWWd]

I dont know any WIP mods that still use 8bits so its not a problem i think.

[Bloodbane]

 Be careful bWWd, there are some modders who don't know about 16bit/32bit yet. Most new modders start mod by editing existing mods so if those mods are 8bit, it's more likely their mod 8bit too.

[bWWd]

so no mng anims for 8bit mods,technical reasons.Its very easy to change 8bits into 16 bit mod.

[Damon Caskey]

so no mng anims for 8bit mods,technical reasons.Its very easy to change 8bits into 16 bit mod.

I'm with bwwd on this one. We just make it clear that if you want to use the fancy shmancy .mng and full 16bit color with it, use 16bit mode. New modules get new options, old mods still work. No problem.

What I do worry about is some big time bloat. From what I understand, the .mng libraries are huge and a nightmare to deal with. Anyone here have some experience working with them?

DC

[MatMan]

What I do worry about is some big time bloat. From what I understand, the .mng libraries are huge and a nightmare to deal with. Anyone here have some experience working with them?
DC

I recall there being a variant or two and the original one was really chunky and the firefox guys refused to implement it cause they said that it was so badly written and then another variant came out a few years later which the firefox guys said was really well written.

I got no exp on mng animation but I would recommend checking the firefox forum for info.

[utunnels]

Hm, mng is just one optional choice, talking about the title of this topic. 
If we can implement 16bit/32bit real time animation, then it will not be a problem when we try some other animation format, including custom format.

For example, a package of png or gif sequence with delay/duration values (in that case each frame can have individual palette). This is similar to an entity file, but the frames are not preloaded.

The problem is, it will be frustrating to animate hundreds or even thousands of frames from scratch. Though, if someone can write a movie converter, things will be easier.

[Plombo]

I looked into the possibility of MNG support several months ago, so I'll comment here.

There must have been other discussions on implementing movie features in openbor, so any conclusions so far?

It seems most links are broken (at least to me). So maybe it is harder to find a good and free MNG editor.

This was a problem I noticed at the time.  There aren't many good MNG viewers, either, and none of the common image viewers support it.

OK, I think I know one reason why movie support is limited so far. Maybe openbor has to support 8bit screen but most movie formats only support 16/24bit color?

I guess this would be a small problem, but it wouldn't be that hard to disable 16/24-bit animations in 8-bit color mode.