funding a bor project via kickstarter

[onsiteone]

I want to put together a small team to do an HD remake of streets of rage or golden axe. i have an artist and programmer on board but would like to compensate them for their time as we are busy with work and family life. Redrawing every sprite and stage background in hd obviously is very time consuming.

I'm exploring ways to drum up funds to support our effort and found the Kickstarter website to be interesting. However this is a very public/visible avenue. In contrast, lavalit's website is more private. I'm wondering the legal requirements are of doing a remake of an existing game AND funding it via Kickstarter. Only the graphics (and audio) will be updated and everything else of the original game will be left alone. Oviously SEGA owns the original game (SoR/Golden Axe) so I'm sure i'll be stepping on some toes. Here are a few points:

- I do not plan to sell the final bor mod
- I plan to distribute just the PAK file
- Only the graphical elements will be updated/altered (sprites/backgrounds)
- Stage music will be updated simply by rips of existing remixes found online - credit will be given of course
- attack style, special/magic style, level sequence, etc will remain the same as original game

I want to be sure I proceed with the proper steps so I don't get myself or anyone in trouble. Thanks for any advice.

[bWWd]

You would have to pay SEGA for license but i doubt that they let you remake their franchises even with million $$$.
Its not that simple, you cant just pick some oldschool beatem up and remake it like that officially raising money for devs and artists.
Some remakes were taken down already so im sure SEGA wont let you do this one.
My advice - change the game title and chars names.

[trebean]

You could always try what Super Mario Cross-Over did, make an indirect tribute to it, They made new characters for the game, but one look and you'll know who's based from it.

Like Mecha Boy, a Boy that was turned into a Cyborg to save his life, no prizes for guessing who was that based of.

Try making something creative like, turning Gidius into a:

A Rouge Orc, who uses his mighty club to fight his evil brother'ins from the mighty power of the "Cursed" Platinium Battle Mace.

[Die_In_Fire]

you should first make a mod with already available sprites, and make sure you can replicate all the stuff from either SOR or GA, so you can understand how the engine works. After that, go into the big stuff.

You could always try what Super Mario Cross-Over did, make an indirect tribute to it, They made new characters for the game, but one look and you'll know who's based from it.

more like sprite edits rather than made from scratch.

[onsiteone]

Thanks for all the input guys. Much appreciated.

Hmm.. so is the main problem then just the idea of publicizing on kickstarter for funds?

Otherwise my "plan B" would just to publicize here on lavalit and slap on a donation link, which it seems is how all the existing SoR and Golden Axe remakes were born. So has anyone here who did a SoR or GA remake had problems with SEGA during their projects?

Or is the problem because I want to "fund" my team for the project? How would that compare to just getting donations? I can fall back and tell my team it'll be 100% voluntary basis. It may take a bit longer to get the remake done - but it will be done. =)

@Treabean: I will also try to contact the creator of Super Retro Squad (eg Super Mario Bros Crossover) to see how they handled the legal aspects. It looks like the Super Retro Squad game is being designed with original characters and levels - though maintaining the "feel" of the source games - which looks to be the key idea. In this way as you said, Nintendo will be ok with.

However, the Super Mario Bros Crossover game does not have original characters. On their website it details Mario, Link, Samus, Mega Man playable in the game. Heck they didn't even change the game's title much. I'll find out from the makers of SMBC to see if they had any problems from Nintendo when they finished their project.

I was following the development of Streets of Rage Remake v5 (by bombergames) since the last 2 yrs before it was released. It's my favorite SEGA game. And then they had to take the game down a week or two after release when Sega didn't allow it. That was too bad. But what is the difference between the SoR remakes here on Lavalit compared to how Bombergames' remake is made? Why did Sega take them down and all the remakes here on lavalit still exists - and are all awesome BTW!

Sorry for the long post. I'm very serious about remaking my fave Sega games right away, but have very little free time and could not stand to wast months/years on development and get a letter in the mail from SEGA one day.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

[onsiteone]

I got a reply from the maker of Super Mario Bros Crossover:

My question:
"did you have any problems with nintendo while developing SMBC? since that game has same-named characters from the original nes titles? "

Answer from WhiteRabbit:
"I've never had any legal problems. Just make sure you don't make any money off the game."

I have also emailed SEGA and am awaiting their reply... 

I also did some further searching online. according to wikipedia it seems that the legal issues of a fan game is a bit of gray area. the companies that own the games' original copyright may or may not shut down your fangame/remake. legally the company has a right to stop any fan game, but doesn't mean that they will. some turn a blind eye and some attack with a vengeance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fangame

I also ran across a post by a forum member of RPG Maker (which is awesome, I bought the software last year) that I felt was enlightening. Essentially it doesn't matter if you don't make money, or that you give credit for everything, you just have to get permission from the copyright owners first. And just hope they're having a good day. =)

http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?s=a042fa144461e5fe40c878d32bb08305&showtopic=10685&view=findpost&p=98366

[Mrgrill247]

http://www.thetechherald.com/articles/Streets-of-Rage-Remake-beaten-to-death-by-SEGA

You should read this sad article.

[onsiteone]

yea that was a real bummer what sega did. i also read somewhere online that bombergame had contacted sega from the begining and they said it was okay. then bombergames contacted them at a later point and sega said no... and bombergames continued anyway. i'm glad they finished the project anyway though to put closure to 8 years of work.

[bWWd]

If you will keep it low profile and release it then it will take awhile for sega to find out about it and then its really up to them so its risky thing, you will raise money then game gets released and SEGA will force you to remove it completely, its gonna be available probably on some warez sites because if SEGA will do that then you wont be even able to share your work with us on lavalit, against the rules.
Most mods have CAPCOM/SEGA/SNK copyrighted sprites and graphics, CAPCOM is quite cool about fangames, SEGA is not, also current Double Dragon license owners have very bad attitude towards fangames like we all saw here.
Its like listening to music you know, if you listen in your house at party with 30 friends then its OK but if you will play it in official club with 100's of people then you have to pay royalties.

[onsiteone]

hmm.. i hear ya bwwd. it's an interesting pickle. if i want to raise money for the project I need to spread the news with lots of fanfare and cast a wide net, but that will also attract the copyright holders who have the right to shut you down. or i can go under the radar and stay within the confines of lavalit website for example and be low/no budget production...which doesn't seem like a bad idea - and i can see why many here have done just that.

I also got an email reply from sega:

My Question:

"What is your policy on fangames? I heard that Street of Rage Remake v5 was taken down at Sega's request. However there are many other great SoR and sega game remakes available free online that hasn't met the same fate. thanks for any clarification"

Answer from Sega:

"We never give explicit permission to use our intellectual property. However, we tend not to take action unless we or our products are slandered in the derivative works. In regards to SoR v5, we are unable to comment on this."

It's a good reply and I was actually not expecting that much of an explanation. Sounds almost like they won't bite unless you don't bite first. Perhaps there was more to the drama between bombergames and sega...

[Die_In_Fire]

hmm.. i hear ya bwwd. it's an interesting pickle. if i want to raise money for the project I need to spread the news with lots of fanfare and cast a wide net, but that will also attract the copyright holders who have the right to shut you down. or i can go under the radar and stay within the confines of lavalit website for example and be low/no budget production...which doesn't seem like a bad idea - and i can see why many here have done just that.

Exactly, just take a look at the excellent Golden Axe Myth, they didn't raise any money for all the ORIGINAL stuff, unlike the author of SMC and his sprite edits.
It would be cool to hear about Baritonomarchetto and Oscar, if they had problems or not with GAMyth.

About Bombergames, I think the problem were 2 factors: the use of "Remake", I mean, it sounds like an official remake just with the title. And the other factor was that SORR had ot of promotion, and when released, got a very big hype, appearing on lot of videogame websites, while GAMyth was more overlooked.

[baritonomarchetto77]

We had no problems at all with Golden Axe Myth (is the game so bad?    ).

Not sure if it was because there is a lot of original stuff (new story, 100% original graphics, 100% original music, even if inspired by) or because of some good luck ...

[zamuel]

This is purely my unprofessional (well, maybe semi-professional) opinion that if you're putting a ton of work into the game, you might as well be using original material.  Nostalgia has it's place but brand new material is a good thing.

[onsiteone]

@baritonomarchetto: Golden Axe Myth is one of the best GA remakes here. =)

@zamuel: that is a good point. If i'm going to put alot of effort, then i should just do original content.

i appreciate all your input guys!

at this point i've decided  to do a golden axe hd remake and keep it known only here in lavalit. I plan to use the wonderful GA remake by uTunnels as my framework since that mod has all the original GA levels and mechanics preserved perfectly. I only need to swap in the HD sprites and make  minor adjustments to the text files for video/resolution changes. So this project will be fairly straight forward. i will be taking my artist out to dinner and lunch quite often! =)

once i complete the HD remake, then i will take what i've learned and work on developing an original game like how baritonomarchetto (GA Myth) and bonusjz (nightslashers) have done so well. at that point i can revisit the thought of possible outside funding since an original game would take more effort and commitment to complete, and i have a few big ideas........

[JetStrange]

You would have to pay SEGA for license but i doubt that they let you remake their franchises even with million $$$.
Its not that simple, you cant just pick some oldschool beatem up and remake it like that officially raising money for devs and artists.
Some remakes were taken down already so im sure SEGA wont let you do this one.
My advice - change the game title and chars names.

Right on the head. See when I saw this I was thinking you all were gonna do your own kinda thing Which would be real awesome. Now as for putting it up on kickstarter. Thats a good idea but becarful because "talk is cheap" on that site. From that said get Gameplay Footage(WIP or other) of the game your making.