(Dev Talk News) OpenBor on Wii is possible?? Now!!

[kungpow12345]

Thats sounds a little weird, are you saying that openbor needs to have a linux kernel compiled along side it?  That would be a first!  The linux kernel is the root of a OS, just like windows has its own kernel.  Its not something you would compile together with an application.  Its the foundation for a operating system.  In any case I, don't own a Wii and though I can make suggestions, I really don't want to work on something I don't own.  Just for one reason....  supporting a port  on a console I don't own is a major pain!  Things will break, waiting for others to get back to you for debugging purposes,  Its just not efficient and too time consuming for me.

Best of luck, Like I said, I can help out where I can....   and supporting this port, will have to rest on you for the most part if things break down the road.....

How about this....instead of donating money to the OpenBoR Donation Box, I can send you a Nintendo Wii, Zelda Wii and an SD Card to develop it (I'll probably go ahead and throw in a SD Gecko). 

It'd take me a little while to get all of that for you but at least you would actually have a Wii to develop with then.

But in reality, the kernel is separate from the "native" stuff like busybox, the bor wii filesystem and the ramdisk but it will all come together in the form of openborwii.elf at the end. The other stuff, in this case the pak files, will be loaded separately either in the root of the SD Card or when we use the Homebrew Channel, the path would be /apps/openbor/paks and /logs.

I'm not trying to bug you to death on this one but what I'm trying to convey is that this would be a huge achievement if we can get OpenBoR on 2 of the next gen consoles...especially one as popular as the Wii. I'm willing to do what I can to support OpenBoR Wii in the future and that's why I'm working my butt off to understand how to get applications ported over to Wii Linux so we can reach our goal.

The hardest part for me is trying to take what I've learned from the source code I've seen thus far with MFE, SDL Mame, and OpenTyrian Wii and then trying to add it to the unified source code that makes up OpenBoR currently. I'm really trying to avoid not having to fight to "update" OpenBoR to the current build from the old SDL build that you did a few years ago (SDL 0.0.2). Sure it might help us get at least one version of OpenBoR over to the Wii but it won't be the latest and greatest version that everyone would like to see on there.

[SX]

But in reality, the kernel is separate from the "native" stuff like busybox, the bor wii filesystem and the ramdisk but it will all come together in the form of openborwii.elf at the end. The other stuff, in this case the pak files, will be loaded separately either in the root of the SD Card or when we use the Homebrew Channel, the path would be /apps/openbor/paks and /logs.

ok... This now makes sense.  I was expecting that the port would be an elf file.  Since you now have a homebrew channel, now bear in mind I've only seen a Wii once in action.  Does Nintendo have any documentation on this new channel?  Since this is not the twilight hack?

[kungpow12345]

Nintendo didn't make the Homebrew Channel, homebrewers did. Basically, the Homebrew Channel does the same job as the Twilight Hack and that's how you first install it, through the Twilight Hack. But once you do that, you won't have to use Zelda Wii ever again to load your apps unless you decide to delete the channel. You can say it's the Twilight Hack minus the Zelda Wii part and it looks a lot nicer.

What's neat about the Homebrew Channel is that it makes it super easy to load up your applications onto an SD Card and then run the channel. It has a super slick GUI and most everything is customizable. Here's a thread I made about the Homebrew Channel a few days ago.

http://lavalit.com:8080/index.php?topic=1464.0

[kbandressen]

Hmm, here's something that might put an end to our hopes:

http://www.stepmania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13186&page=4

Apparently, the Wii's ToS has some kind of clause that makes any unlicensed code that runs on the Wii Nintendo's property.  It seems a little farfetched, but it's enough to keep the Stepmania team from porting to the Wii.  Is this something we need to be worried about?

[kungpow12345]

Hmm, here's something that might put an end to our hopes:

http://www.stepmania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13186&page=4

Apparently, the Wii's ToS has some kind of clause that makes any unlicensed code that runs on the Wii Nintendo's property.  It seems a little farfetched, but it's enough to keep the Stepmania team from porting to the Wii.  Is this something we need to be worried about?

This is absolutely false pointed out in said forum topic.

There is an Open Source Dev kit developed by the The fine people at www.Wiibrew.org so ALL homebrew on the wii is 100% Legal with NO Nintendo Binarys whatsoever! There is nothing stopping anyone from porting Stepmaina to the wii...

Wii Linux and OpenBoR are both GPL based engines and they can not be owned by Nintendo in any way. Even if we eventually venture into libogc and libwii territory with OpenBoR, even that is open source and legal. Now the Xbox Scene is in that boat (as in ToS stuff) because the entire scene (most of it anyways) is using an illegal Development Kit and that's why all links are hosted on IRC sources. Everything made for the Nintendo Wii, Gamecube and DS are made from 100% legal, open source libraries in every sense of the word. We have nothing to be worried about.

[kbandressen]

Yeah, I thought it seemed a little weird but since the Stepmania team was taking things so seriously I figured it might be something we needed to look out for.

[kungpow12345]

The least that Nintendo could ever do is patch up the Zelda Wii Exploit, but many more games have the capability of running the same attack that makes the Twilight Hack work, and quite frankly will be futile in my opinion.

...and we've all seen how hackers and homebrewers have combated such an attack on consoles and handhelds, the Sony PSP being my prime example. I've said it once and I'll say it again, homebrewing will happen, consoles and handhelds will get cracked, the question is always when.

[Fightn Words]

I can understand about using copyrighted programing algorithms being illegal, but the rest of the argument just doesn't hold up. They may well have something written down somewhere that sais that, but think about it: what about games made for Nintendo that aren't made by Nintendo? Somehow I doubt Nintendo owns the rights to all games made for their Wii console, 'cause then there'd be no third party support (it's all about the money). Common sense.

[kungpow12345]

I can understand about using copyrighted programing algorithms being illegal, but the rest of the argument just doesn't hold up. They may well have something written down somewhere that sais that, but think about it: what about games made for Nintendo that aren't made by Nintendo? Somehow I doubt Nintendo owns the rights to all games made for their Wii console, 'cause then there'd be no third party support (it's all about the money). Common sense.

You're absolutely right FW. It's up to the third party developers to decide on if those games will be available on the Virtual Console. That's why most of Rare's N64 titles won't be on the VC. Only ones that Nintendo owns property-wise, those will be available. (Donkey Kong Country & Diddy Kong Racing as an example)

Homebrew wise, we're going to be ok on that remark to port OpenBoR over to the Wii.

[kungpow12345]

To SX, KB or any other Linux buffs out there,

Does this look right as far as structure is concerned? I'm trying to see how I can adapt my Wii changes to OpenBoR even further by trying to finish the build in one step, merging it into the unified build like it "should be," with all the "fixins"

Target File:   openborwii.elf (This is the file I'm trying to make to enable OpenBoR to be on the Wii)

openborwii.elf
(Below are the parts I'm trying to contend with and all of these are in the .elf file)

   Cross
   --------
   linux-2.6.12.tar.bz2 (Linux kernel source)
      gc-linux-2.6.12-cvs.diff (this wouldn't really matter with the Wii PoC build)
      borwii-boot-config (sets up boot sequence for Wii Linux)

   Native
   --------
   ramdisk   (ramdisk.image.gz)
(This is where I get confused on the Linux side, ramdisk is just loading the file system below, right? or keeps a record of it?)

      borwii-fs.bz2

         busybox (bor-busybox.tar.gz)
(Mounts Front SD loader, does ARAM swap,etc)

            (busybox-1.00.tar.bz2) (source)
      
         libsdl (Source for SDL)
            (SDL-1.2.8.tar.gz)

         borwii (I'm guessing on the structure here too.)
            (borwii-tar.gz)
               /usr/local/bin/bor (engine)
               /usr/local/share/bor/ (/menu)
(In OpenTyrian Wii, I saw a .bz2 file that was similiar to what /menu does (or did according to the new engine), it held most of the menu files and stuff like that but it wasn't a part of the .elf file)

This is the last step to get OpenBoR over to the Wii. Please help...

[Computica]

  I can use the remote to use free specials!!!

[kungpow12345]

Ok guys, the day I have dreaded for Nintendo Homebrew has finally come. Nintendo made an update to the Wii last night in the form of v3.3. What it does is that it kills the Twilight Hack and any attempt to put it back on the system is futile. However, if you have installed the Homebrew Channel, you will be safe from this patch.

I'm still venturing ahead to get OpenBoR on the Wii in spite of this. I have my Wii Linux environment ready to go and I have successfully compiled MFE Wii myself and last night when I did my testing, it worked wonders.

I'm asking for anyone that's going to test "BoRWii" in the near future that they will need to buy an SD Gecko so you can load the BoR Filesystem on it. I'm going to have another talk with nuvalo tonight and see how he gets the Filesystem to load from the Front SD Card Slot. Still, I would get an SD Gecko because it's a good place to keep all of your roms as a backup. In the meantime, I will be loading the filesystem from the SD Gecko and the roms will load from this slot as well.  I'm expecting to be done with this port at the end of the week but I say for good measure, give me at least 2 weeks tops to properly test it.

**DO NOT UPDATE YOUR NINTENDO WII IF YOU WANT TO LOAD OPENBOR OR ANY HOMEBREW ON YOUR SYSTEMS FROM THIS POINT ON**

I'm constantly watching for updates into this matter and bushing has announced that a workaround is possible but it will need to be testing further before it's released to the public.

[kbandressen]

Oh, I don't know if I can live without being able to move a Mii from the Mii Plaza to the Mii Parade.  I might just have to update!

Anyhow, I don't have an SD Gecko, but if you manage to get loading from the front card slot working, I'll be glad to try it out!

[kungpow12345]

Oh, I don't know if I can live without being able to move a Mii from the Mii Plaza to the Mii Parade.  I might just have to update!

Anyhow, I don't have an SD Gecko, but if you manage to get loading from the front card slot working, I'll be glad to try it out!

If you installed the Homebrew Channel before the v3.3 update, you'll be able to play "some" homebrew. To be able to run OpenBoR Wii, you'll have to turn off WiiConnect 24 while you play it. Apparently it doesn't like Wii Linux much lol But yeah, if you have the HBC, you're good for homebrew.

[Kirby2000]

Can you not run homebrew without the Twilight hack if you have a chipped Wii? I just got a WiiKey installed and I have to say for ?40 ($80), its been 100% perfect so far.